Keycard Hours Blackedout from 10pm-7am

Drew @The Busy Bee stand brought this to my attention and i agree it may be inappropriate and inconvenient ruling with the new keys. (I find it funny to be writing about this since i still haven't been issued a key but haha that's another post When operating my stand, it is sometimes most efficient for an employee to deliver cold item and equipment inventory for the next operating day after the close of my WY shop- usually around 9:45-10pm. It cuts down on the volume and time/number of trips that we need to unload on the market days, making life easier for everyone. With the new application of currently programmed keycard blackout times (or never even being given a key) operations have become more difficult for a few of us. i understand many vendors have other jobs and may only have early or evening hours to prep their stands, and one or two of the vendors so far have not been able to get in arriving earlier in the day before a few of the doors open at 6am. I'm not exactly sure on the opening times so if someone could fill me in on those i would appreciate it. If this has caused problems for anyone else please say so.

I have addressed alex and annette about this, alex's response was that some vendors were coming in and (of all things) cooking with music turned up, and would not be changed. It was probably Drew haha. I agreed the market shouldn't be treated as a personal party space for after hours, however as far as i know it is not a problem. i suggested notion of keycard access 24 hours for vendors like we previously had with our regular keys. annettes response was that she was told not to give me a card -so operating hours was a moot point. However i do feel it is ok and fair for vendors who do need to prepare food or perform maintenance to their stand as they see fit the night/morning before so long as they respect the other vendors property, and if present, ears.

anyone else have thoughts on the keys being blacked-out from 10pm-7am? love it? hate it? dont care till you forget your house keys in there and have to go back and cant get in? just cant sleep because you might have left something on by accident and know you can't check it?

24hrs most definitely. Isn't the point of the new system to make the market more secure and have the ability to track vendor's use? They have cameras... So wouldn't it be really easy to track and fine the loud music culprits?

Sarah Lanphier wrote:wouldn't it be really easy to track and fine the loud music culprits?

i would strongly oppose a 'fine': inter-vendor relations should be able to work this out with each other peacefully in person, and agree to respect each other. noone in the market as fas as i know has a sound system with the means to become a nuisance to any neighboring buildings or passersby the market house. i'm not much a believer in penalty based systems and one of the points of the forum is to be able to work out problems. money or the threat to take it therof wouldn't solve this anyways. if loud music on off-hours is occurring i am completely unaware, but would say "rock jazz country or whatever helps you make it through the days." personally, at some times i'd enjoy taking in the musical tastes of other vendors. those pianos are louder than any stereo i've heard in operation at the market: now if you are practicing the piano after hours i might suggest a fine

I can see your argument. The principle of the matter is that they have the technology in place to track the use of our keys. Therefore, their fear of someone doing something off hours should be rectified by the fact that they could trace, track and take proper action for any instance they speak of.

Talked with Annette today and this is one of the issues i brought up. again this is funny in an ironic way discussing keycards when i was never issued and still again today was refused a keycard.

i was told that some vendors have been given 24 hour access keycards, some restricted. those who dont have 24 hour have to tell her why they want 24 hour access- and once she passes that by the board, then can make the adjustments. it's definitely another oddball instance of a board that doesn't have any idea of the vendor's needs or be in the foodservice business for that matter, trying to assert control over vendors. why? Those who don't have 24 hours access were picked at the whim and fancy of people that dont know you or how you operate your stand, which i remarked as being a vote of distrust towards the vendors who have been restricted without notice. i asked what vendors who are on a time lockout can do to change to 24 hour, and Annette said they would just have to stop by her office and explain what they would be doing in the market after hours. I believe it requires you to fill out a form and write down exactly what you will be doing in the market when the board thinks you shouldn't have any business there. Millers couldn't get in to set up at 5am this past week because of the cards; and apparently Annette fixed it in a few days with minor inconvenience to them as far as she said. i did mention Drew's (Busy Bee) situation to her towards the end of the conversation as being one who would definitely need to meet with her about changing hours of access- and a clearly different attitude was taken. so drew apparently you have to 'go to the principle's office for a scolding' is the vibe i got. other vendors wishing to see if they currently have 24 hours access contact annette and those who dont and would like to change their access to 24 hours also need to stop by and explain that you have a business to run, and business is not exactly predictable.

my point is, the board has nothing to lose by access that we all previously enjoyed and many vendors need it. as far as i know the market house has operated rather peacefully with 50+ vendors who enjoyed 24 hour regular key access for hmm, 126 years? the only property at risk is of the other vendors. i have never had a problem with another vendor disturbing anything yet, over three years. the only thing the market house has to lose is some toilet paper and maybe a mop. the core issue is that rather than communicate what may be a misunderstanding with a single or few vendors, a decision has already been made restricting multiple vendors access to their own businesses, and saving face by saying it's an "umbrella policy" -while clearly directed at a group of vendors. while i feel the new key system will keep out ex-vendors and ex-employees of ex-vendors who had old keys, there is no reason for time limits on the new cards.

if i have any support for restricted keycards it would be these situations:

if a current vendor would repeatedly engage in abusing their access. as a hypothetical example, say entering to hold a footrace around the market between a vendor and their friends during the day on sunday. the camera system would record it and that could be abusing the access. and after notice has been given to the vendor restricting their access to only market days 6-4pm, then their keycard would be restricted untill the issue was resolved the next market day and access restored.

most reasonably would be to apply this situation to a new vendor, of which all would pose a higher risk of theft or vandalism. possibly include it in the lease that for the first year; hours will be restricted unless written and explained and agreed why a vendor would need other access.

well i guess there is one more scenario it would be useful... if there is a Jekyll and Hyde vendor with 24 hour access here, who feels they need their own keycard restricted as some form of security measure to protect everyone else from yourself -if beyond your control you turn into a beast and destroy things at night; Market Master will be happy to restrict your card.

If you need additional access I believe Annette and the board will be willing to work with you.

Most of these problems have evolved from the following:

1) The market was neglected for quite sometime by the previous board and nothing was done.
2) An entirely new board came in over the past two years, a group of "All-Stars" you can say who are all VERY successful, intelligent and have a vested interest in the city. While all that is fantastic, these all stars don't necessarily like to play nice at times, and usually can't decide on anything because he or she is always right.
3) There are A LOT of board members... I believe close to 20. If every time you had to make a decision about your business and 20 people had to approve, you wouldn't get anything done either. And I mean EVERY decision. Annette isn't even allowed to hang a sign on the door without permission...
4) There is a lack of trust between the board and the vendors worsened by a lack of communication and series of assumptions. Going back the board all stars analogy, their is also a feeling of disrespect amongst the vendors as if the board, true or not, feels the vendors are a group of lessers who will be bettered by their policies.

To truly get something done we need to present a case to the board expressing the concerns of the vendors. Not complaining but a legitimate case with legitimate facts and examples. If others are willing to contribute to this forum, I would be happy to compile our responses and present it to them. It is important to note that standing around and complaining isn't going to change anything. This forum is a step in the right direction to compile our thoughts and move towards better representation as a coalition of businesses.

I do think that the new key fob system is a bit too restrictive. I at times need to stock my stand after 10 pm, and, especially in the summer, when it stays daylight until 9 or so, I work long days, and at times need to bring product into market, or check on a refrigerator, etc. I have expressed this concern to Annette, and she said she could work with me on that. At this time it is not an urgent need, and I sensed that her plate is pretty full, so I am letting it go for now. But I will need access later than 10 come spring. I agree with Sarah that we need to present good, reasoned cases for such issues.

David glad to see you had time to comment- i would say to you and all vendors to take care of it now, she will ALWAYS seem busy, it's her (newly added) responsibility as the market master to do this for us, and seeing how the present board is operating she is going to get ALOT more tedious work to do as they make more changes. plus it will take some time, at least a few days to correct. she may seem overloaded and part of the goal of the forum is to relieve some responsibility off of her too, not having to meet or deal with each individual vendor on every issue. if we can thoroughly discuss and present a clear and uniform policy that we all can agree on, it will only take one session for a decision. the issue at hand is uniform, anytime FOB access to maintain our business, as well as prepare for operation on special event or holiday hours. our individual needs change, as you mention, with times of the year and situations that don't have time for two week advance approval. if we can all agree that we should not have restricted fobs, and will need notice and reason in the instance of future restriction; i would be happy to write the proposal.

(and i guess FOB is the terminology for the new lock system, i was calling it keycards, but to keep in consistency's sake we should call them FOB or fobs from here out- thanks for pointing that out)

what i don't understand is these three things:

• why restiriction in the first place
  
• why only certain places were restricted
  
• why was notice never given
  

well also why i was never given one which still has not been answered after two weeks of me asking directly. what were the cirteria? i need to know what they were/are thinking.

Sounds good, Rob. I agree that it just makes things unnecessarily difficult for certain vendors at certain times to restrict access to the market.

I met with Annette again today and brought this up. i believe we were in agreement that all food vendors needed 24 hours access, and as long as a food vendor asked her for 24 hour access, it would be changed. however, she stated non food vendors will still have restricted times. any there any non food vendors that have anything to say?

Also, not sure if i was supposed to see this, but it looks like apparently the system was also making some mistakes about which vendors keys work at which doors. so if you are unaware, fobs will only work at certain doors, and for some reason some have gotten switched. So if you card doesn't work at your usual door, make sure to try the other ones in case this may have happened before getting pissed. there are 3 FOB doors, so check them and let her know if your usual door is not operational. Annette was working to fix this so hopefully she will have it taken care of by thursday.

Thanks for the information regarding the key fob. Recently we are unable to get into the door closest to our stand. We thought it was an overall glitch but it sounds like our keys may have the wrong access doors appointed to them.

By the way this forum is very helpful. Thanks!